tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post3064048839074063671..comments2024-03-26T08:09:33.829+00:00Comments on The Plastic Mancunian: Shakespeare is RubbishPlastic Mancunianhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01864213919913476168noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-89090677254646801962023-09-11T15:05:04.123+01:002023-09-11T15:05:04.123+01:00I was forced at an early age in school to go into ...I was forced at an early age in school to go into the clearing in a nearby forest and watch said nonny nonny nonsense actors, one with a donkeys head that scared me into nightmares, doing a play that quite frankly made no sense at all and made me think in later life that shakespeare was on LSD or whatever they had back then. I hate them teaching it in schools and think it's outdated rubbish that teaches people nothing. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-20029812153996763392023-08-27T21:47:41.167+01:002023-08-27T21:47:41.167+01:00Wow, it's been ten years since this post first...Wow, it's been ten years since this post first appeared and I made my comments.<br /><br />Not long ago I heard a very interesting discussion about the British education system, in particular that of England. It's all based on the Victorian idea that to make it as elite as possible will keep down the plebs and give privilege to the middle and upper classes, they do better in life and it self-perpetuates. It's a form of eugenics<br />Hence the obsession with old Shaky and other 'esoteric' subjects such as Latin.<br />It explains why recent Prime Ministers, old Etonians have no sense of reality or responsibility by their pie in the sky and reckless actions.jeremy northhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619517364832117418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-49117705203306865882023-08-25T18:57:11.966+01:002023-08-25T18:57:11.966+01:00Absolutely agree to a point of frustrated anguish....Absolutely agree to a point of frustrated anguish.<br />When I was at secondary school our head of English and drama was a complete Bill fan to the point that he restructured the school class system so that he only had 8/10 pupils in he's class this relegating everyone else to lower/much lower grades.<br />This went unquestioned much to everyone else's chagrin and he was about as hated as an absolute bafoon ( and I'm being nice there) because he's love of a dead Brummy shaped our outcome.<br />Let the dead be dead or live with the consequence.Jack Porternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-26448472005209250292023-02-09T10:44:43.608+00:002023-02-09T10:44:43.608+00:00I suspect it's a lot of fun to act in a shakes...I suspect it's a lot of fun to act in a shakespeare play. And this is the reason audiences have to put up with so much of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-62073703637090209372021-11-04T10:29:11.082+00:002021-11-04T10:29:11.082+00:00https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD4RmMJJES4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD4RmMJJES4Billyhttp://bruitdefond-blog.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-74870171268386025762021-05-16T16:15:22.920+01:002021-05-16T16:15:22.920+01:00Believe you aren't alone bro. This piece of ox...Believe you aren't alone bro. This piece of ox shit is being prescribed to kids around the world including Bharat. Especially the CISCE does this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-32371394031161147382020-10-08T21:35:45.171+01:002020-10-08T21:35:45.171+01:00So much to add to this envigorating discussion.
1....So much to add to this envigorating discussion.<br />1. I suffered more than my share of Shakespeare's undoubted talent in my youth, occasionally voluntarily too. The most enjoyable experience was "a midsummer nights dream" entirely in Latin. It turns out that trying to translate our hero's clever quips from Latin to English is much more rewarding than translating from dead English to live English.<br />2. I concur with the comment re the beatles above. George Harrison apart, they are so hideously overrated that it seems speaking your mind honestly about them surely should be an arrestable offence. See also opera (which, thankfully, isn't in English), fine wine, the acquired tastes of caviar and avocados , musicals, declan rice, fawlty towers, Paris, whether it is springtime or not and tennis.<br />3. In particular, I see your Shakespeare and raise you Charles dickens. He has less excuse for being pure bollocks as he was born a good few years later. Yet I was at the age of 10 forced to read the pickwick papers during the school holidays. On return to school, I was "tested" on my understanding of it and failed miserably having read all 1200 odd bastard pages and not once realised that it was supposed to be a comedy. As for "hard times", the only good thing I can say for that tripe is that it reads just as described in the title. Timshortshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16668622377131178857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-32049516936336640172020-06-19T10:49:19.985+01:002020-06-19T10:49:19.985+01:00I completely agree.I completely agree.Josephine Zigmund Jr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05116208952191775004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-45217398646250570892019-12-26T06:21:07.400+00:002019-12-26T06:21:07.400+00:00I'm so glad to see that other people share a s...I'm so glad to see that other people share a similar opinion as I do about Shakespeare, or for that matter any other writer! To be fair, English wasn't my favorite subject. I related to math and earned advanced degrees in Finance/Accounting in college! I recall getting in trouble in high school when I finally spoke up to my teacher's question to "what was Shakespeare thinking when he wrote..." My reply was 1. who cares 2. he's dead so we will never know. 3. how does it effect modern times what a dead dude was thinking when he wrote a paper given his ideas were already on paper? English literature is a complete waste of a college education and sadly my taxpayers money funds such a worthless topic and I refuse to pay for my child's college if they pick such a stupid major!<br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br />A diehard democrat.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11948044570914824228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-5634349929036382542017-10-26T17:20:55.476+01:002017-10-26T17:20:55.476+01:00While I don't think Shakespeare is rubbish exa...While I don't think Shakespeare is rubbish exactly, he is certainly overrated. Also I liked your remark about a typical Shakespeare edition being about 55 per cent explanation. I believe you have hit on something there. <br /><br />Shakespeare is an industry these days. He keeps a lot of English Literature lecturers and professors in a job and churning out new books about this or that aspect of the plays and works and I haven't even started on all the weird and wacky theatre or film adaptations. <br /><br />In fact old Will has become a kind of Rorschah blot. Everybody can see in him what they want. Why is that ? Because let's be honest, Shakespeare is obscure. He is difficult to understand, even by sixteenth century standards. Other playwrights used much more straightforward language, Christopher Marlowe for example.<br /><br />It appears that Shakespeare used deliberately obscure and ambiguous language, mainly to evade and outfox the state censors operating in Elizabethan England which was a brutal police state. For further explanations may I recommend to anyone who is interested the book by Clare Asquith called ""Shadowplay : The Hidden Beliefs and Coded Politcs of William Shakespeare". It is a fascinating read and clarifies much that is obscure and difficult. Andynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-45297637453869795232017-10-13T03:11:46.446+01:002017-10-13T03:11:46.446+01:00Completely agree with you. In addition to the arch...Completely agree with you. In addition to the archaic language and the low amount of actual content, the plots themselves were usually garbage by modern standards. On top of that were the characters that, more often than not, didn't behave like people. Some were impossibly stupid. Some were lunatics. Some changed fundamentally for no apparent reason. Some behaved according to a highly complex set of motivations that could best be described as "because reasons."<br /><br />The reality is that his contemporary peers are the ones writing low comedy and other trashy tv shows, shows we know would be ridiculous to hold up as jewels of early 21st century entertainments centuries from now.<br /><br />There are plenty of authors from the enlightenment onward who are leagues above Willy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-53210391543786135822017-09-01T02:34:59.574+01:002017-09-01T02:34:59.574+01:00People who worship Shakespeare are like the Empero...People who worship Shakespeare are like the Emperor with the "new clothes", so desperate to appear intelligent that they don't realize people are laughing at them. Evil Inc. Sysadminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00883984614232974563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-55700948917505892402016-01-24T13:18:35.859+00:002016-01-24T13:18:35.859+00:00Hi Geo,
I wouldn't mind if they tried to mode...Hi Geo,<br /><br />I wouldn't mind if they tried to modernise it. All they do is churn it out as was - and that's rubbish.<br /><br />:o)<br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />PMPlastic Mancunianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01864213919913476168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-18159653640214702422016-01-23T16:08:53.966+00:002016-01-23T16:08:53.966+00:00yup shakespeare had his place in time. His stuff b...yup shakespeare had his place in time. His stuff bores me stiff. It really is outdated.Geohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07043329046021043407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-54046653312542521972015-08-18T17:06:03.139+01:002015-08-18T17:06:03.139+01:00Hi Des,
I agree with the deity viewpoint complete...Hi Des,<br /><br />I agree with the deity viewpoint completely. Unlike you, I hated Shakespeare at school because his works portrayed an innate snobbery when it came to authors and works of fiction generally. I was criticized by my English teacher for daring to pick holes in the Bard's work and generally not being authorized to read more contemporary fiction. <br /><br />I was made to look like a fool - and I still kind of resent that. And it led me to dislike anything older than the 20th century, something I probably criticize unfairly in some cases.<br /><br />Even when it comes to acting, some actors are judged by how good and how often they portray Shakespearian characters. "Oh Larry is the greatest actor because his portrait of Hamlet was simply magnificent!" I say "Hogwash - I didn't understand a bloody word he said."<br /><br />Thanks for a great comment.<br /><br />:o)<br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />PMPlastic Mancunianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01864213919913476168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-38985186558221153822015-08-18T12:31:10.242+01:002015-08-18T12:31:10.242+01:00Like John above, I discovered your blog through se...Like John above, I discovered your blog through searching for "Shakespeare is shit", I am in overwhelming agreement with your excellent post. I don't think he is shit, I just loathe the way is transformed into a secular diety, he has long since ceased to be a writer or even a man and has become a vast cultural edifice that is a deadweight on both theatre and education. Harold Bloom even wrote a book called Shakespeare and the Invention of the Human, where he proceeds to argue "the Bard" did just that.<br /><br />Like you I believe many people genuinely love the works, I have a friend who does and with whom i occasionally argue about it but everyone knows they are supposed to love the works and feels obliged to attempt to, or at least pretend to appreciate them. I loved Shakespeare at GCSE and A level but went off him at university- where I studied English and Drama, so I am not ignorant of his works or their context. I would never choose to watch a Shakespeare play or a film/tv adaptation. <br /><br />I am interested in the authorship question but am essentially agnostic on the subject. What fascinates me is the anger and the perceived threat that Bardolators display at any questioning of the conventional narrative. How dare anyone besmirch their precious God.Desnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-8798109457556088132015-08-18T12:29:35.294+01:002015-08-18T12:29:35.294+01:00Like John above, I discovered your blog through se...Like John above, I discovered your blog through searching for "Shakespeare is shit", I am in overwhelming agreement with your excellent post. I don't think he is shit, I just loathe the way is transformed into a secular diety, he has long since ceased to be a writer or even a man and has become a vast cultural edifice that is a deadweight on both theatre and education. Harold Bloom even wrote a book called Shakespeare and the Invention of the Human, where he proceeds to argue "the Bard" did just that.<br /><br />Like you I believe many people genuinely love the works, I have a friend who does and with whom i occasionally argue about it but everyone knows they are supposed to love the works and feels obliged to attempt to, or at least pretend to appreciate them. I loved Shakespeare at GCSE and A level but went off him at university- where I studied English and Drama, so I am not ignorant of his works or their context. I would never choose to watch a Shakespeare play or a film/tv adaptation. <br /><br />I am interested in the authorship question but am essentially agnostic on the subject. What fascinates me is the anger and the perceived threat that Bardolators display at any questioning of the conventional narrative. How dare anyone besmirch their precious God.Desnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-9091666055526630662015-07-23T16:19:24.600+01:002015-07-23T16:19:24.600+01:00Hi John,
I can imagine that Shakespeare is the ul...Hi John,<br /><br />I can imagine that Shakespeare is the ultimate test - it's so hard to remember, understand and speak (without laughing!!).<br /><br />I didn't know about "comedy" - that explains a lot. Thanks for teaching me something.<br /><br />:o)<br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />PMPlastic Mancunianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01864213919913476168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-76528127766015249632015-07-23T01:02:50.258+01:002015-07-23T01:02:50.258+01:00Found this page from googling "Shakespeare is...Found this page from googling "Shakespeare is shit" (lmao). I am an actor and everywhere I turn I am told that Shakespeare is the ultimate test for the actor. So to be the best actor you have to master Shakespeare. My instinct is to throw Shakespeare's works out the window but I can't escape this simple fact: Brando who is widely regarded as the greatest actor of all time LOVED Shakespeare (same can be said for Burton, McKellen etc.). And Brando was a scoundrel and blackguard (traits I have enormous respect for). <br /><br />Just a point you should take on board: "comedy" in Shakespeare's time meant a play in which nobody dies Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-35881107860321809972015-04-03T17:15:35.626+01:002015-04-03T17:15:35.626+01:00Or perhaps the opinion of a nobody on another one ...Or perhaps the opinion of a nobody on another one of my posts?<br /><br />Nice discussion techniques.<br /><br />Love it.<br /><br />PMPlastic Mancunianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01864213919913476168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-753588901532777232015-04-03T16:30:21.729+01:002015-04-03T16:30:21.729+01:00OK. Now can we have the opinions of a Glaswegian p...OK. Now can we have the opinions of a Glaswegian plasterer on Pindar's Orphism or Virgil's use of the hexameter? Or even those of a new-born Eskimo in the Higgs Boson?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-86903875383948276002015-04-03T16:27:38.551+01:002015-04-03T16:27:38.551+01:00Ok. Massively informative. Now, please, can we hav...Ok. Massively informative. Now, please, can we have the opinions of a Glaswegian plasterer on Pindar's Orphism or Virgil's use of the hexameter? Or even a new-born Eskimo infant's about the Higgs Boson?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-36534341814319817282014-09-19T16:27:39.116+01:002014-09-19T16:27:39.116+01:00Hi Anon,
I agree - there is an element of the &q...Hi Anon,<br /><br />I agree - there is an element of the "pseudo-intellectual" about Shakespeare.<br /><br />:o)<br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />PMPlastic Mancunianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01864213919913476168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-1672777588862869732014-09-19T01:11:28.758+01:002014-09-19T01:11:28.758+01:00Funny blog. I agree with your assessment of Shakes...Funny blog. I agree with your assessment of Shakespeare being highly over-rated. I compare those who endlessly praise Shakespeare to those who swoon endlessly over abstract art like Warhol's can of soup, Ellsworth Kelly's Green White painting, or most of Barnett Newman's work. Crap with a strung out artist making the art but a good salesman making the pitch to the rich, and rich-wannabe's jumping on the band wagon simply to play at sophistication.<br /><br />Blackadder through all four ages was pure brilliance... five ages if you include the final Millennium movie. I bought that box set ages ago, will have to watch those again now lol.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4170913783015287649.post-3438328440973950002014-06-05T19:38:59.920+01:002014-06-05T19:38:59.920+01:00Hi anon,
I wouldn't generalise like that - bu...Hi anon,<br /><br />I wouldn't generalise like that - but for some of the lovers of Shakespeare I think that is definitely true.<br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />PMPlastic Mancunianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01864213919913476168noreply@blogger.com